Why are aspies hated
- Do you have experiences with neuroracism? I don't mean the exclusions, misunderstandings and rejections that most of us have experienced because we are who we are, but discrimination based on the fact that someone knows we are autistic. My question has a reality-related background. A university lecturer with whom I have already completed a few seminars, who knows my personal circumstances (married, two children, part-time student, full-time employee in the education sector) and with whom I have always worked well, insulted me a while ago after I had outed me, rather casually. I make no secret of being an aspie, but neither do I openly carry it out in front of me. So it came about that, when the topic was appropriate, I revealed myself in a subordinate clause. Then he changed his behavior towards me massively. He asked me for a personal interview in which he made it clear to me that I was a teacher for my desired profession) Ziatat: "unsuitable". This was followed by a tirade of hatred in which he said things like "Mr X, someone like you needs care 24 hours a day", "That you have so far been hiding your autism is like attempting to cheat" or "Since you are autistic, I will tell you what you are saying to question in principle ". Even though he has known me and my circumstances for a long time!
I've only ever experienced it in this form once, so it's by no means the rule. Usually people don't even react when I come out. It is usually ignored. But do you know this hatred of autistics and aspies described above? That someone is not hated because they are who they are, but only because they are autistic / aspie?
- I haven't seen that before (rather the other way around, that autistic people condemn NAs across the board), and I find the statements pretty crass.
Did you ask him about the contradiction that he knows your life situation and still claims that you need 24 hour care? Could it be that he did not believe the diagnosis (because he only knows the "real" autism and not Asperger's) and therefore said that? In that case, you might be able to send him some material. There are now some non-fiction books by specialists about Asperger's Syndrome.Everything will be galactically fine.
- You can smoke that guy through the pipe!
Gulfoss wrote:This was followed by a tirade of hatred in which he said things like "Mr. X, someone like you needs care 24 hours a day", "That you have been hiding your autism up to now is like attempting to cheat" or "Since you are autistic, I will tell you what you are saying to question in principle ". Even though he has known me and my circumstances for a long time!
Sad to read that.
Totally panicked and exaggerated reaction. What a person does not know, he is afraid of it. Then it's time to flee or fight. Or what ever.
But guys like that are a cramp.Asperger's Autist
The cups are empty when you finish them
- Yes, since I started dating autistic people on the internet. I experienced a lot of neuroracism there. Fortunately, not all autistic people are like that, and it doesn't seem that bad anymore compared to before. After all, some people have probably noticed after all that the world is not so black and white and that dividing the world in two into AS and "NT" is not only selfish, but also cannot always correspond to the truth. Because you don't know what diagnoses people have in everyday life. It could well be that others don't come out either.
Do not take it personally. The word "neuroracism" has been used by others before you, but I totally reject the word. That's because, on the one hand, I don't like the exaggerated wave of political correctness because of its hypocrisy and its mendacity, because of its external facades, which often hide another frustrating reality. Words like racism are sensational, gimmicky and, in my opinion, are often used and abused. Racism outraged. You can then point your finger at the racist, and in a world where you shouldn't look the other way when it comes to such things, others are quickly outraged too. If there is really "classic" racism involved, then that is perfectly okay. But I don't see any racism in your example.
Many people associate autism with a severe disability (→ SBA ID). Severe cases have a 100 SBA. At Aspies, afaik is said to have previously had some with an SBA of 80. And let's be honest, if you look at what some aspies write on the internet ("Overload! Overload! I listen to 50 radio stations at the same time! I hear the grass growing! When there is light stimulation, I run away like Count Dracula and flee into the darkroom!"), I'm not surprised. I had already thought earlier that education would certainly bring understanding, but also possible side effects. Some time ago it was reported that a nurse who came out was no longer allowed to work at night. That was outrageous, but I found it understandable. Some of them might have seen "Snow Cake" or watched it on the Internet and rightly you don't trust people much anymore. The same is with some people who describe animated GIFs as being out of action for 30 minutes. I wouldn't be surprised if people like that have to surrender their driver's license one day.
The ASA has one advantage, namely that it is a spectrum and that luckily not all are so badly affected. I actually avoid the word "autism" myself, because with autism you tend to be reminded of cases that have always embodied this word. The Aspie is actually not infrequently in the middle of everyday life and many have only learned in recent years why the minimal deviations from the norm can have such devastating consequences in everyday life.
Gulfoss wrote:But do you know this hatred of autistics and aspies described above? That someone is not hated because they are who they are, but only because they are autistic / aspie?I actually only know this hatred among autistic people / aspies themselves. Have a look on the net what people tear themselves apart and hate. But the reasons there are probably different, differences, differences of opinion and egoism.
I've never seen anyone hate autistic people across the board. But I have seen quite often that autistic people hate "NTs". In your case, I don't see any hatred or discrimination ... the reaction really seems a bit exaggerated, but I suspect that's because of the image that many people have of autism: "You have a severe disability. With autism there is even an SBA card. The restrictions are mainly in the area of communication, social interaction and repetitive stereotypical behavior patterns. You can certainly not recognize facial expressions, you do not understand the unwritten rules of the world . They have no filters. They certainly often have overloads. It would be irresponsible if I ignored that. ".
To be honest, years ago I also saw doctors being totally amazed and saying "I would not have thought so. Because I talk to you completely normally. I understand you, you understand me".
I think there are examples that show that aspies in particular are not extraterrestrials compared to the "classic" autistic people. There are certainly autistic teachers and afaik in the medical, including psychological and psychiatric fields. I would explain that there are these significant differences in this ASS. Also that Aspies / HFAs typically came through life undetected and were only diagnosed with the mild form of autism in recent years. I am generally in favor of always looking at the individual case and I think to myself, if it is your wish with the teacher, then you will get along and I trust people, where they have interests, that they can do their job well.In letters of gold on a snow white kite I will write "I love you"
And send it soaring high above you for all to read
- No, because I didn't come out at work because of the disadvantages that would result from it. This would damage my reputation as a teacher (I am also a teacher like you). I think the headmistress and my colleagues would write me off as not very tight or treat me like someone who can't cope with the demands of his job. My AS-related difficulties in being a teacher would be seen as AS-related difficulties in being a teacher and that would be bad for me. Maybe everyone would think, "Ah, that's why he's the way he is."I don't think that's okay unless it was well-intentioned by him (doesn't seem to have been like that). Whether one is outwardly unsuitable or not, I personally feel that being a teacher is more unsuitable for the aspie than the aspie unsuitable for being a teacher. That said, I don't doubt that there are good teachers out there who are aspies (hopefully I'm a good teacher myself) but I think it's a lot harder for an aspie to be happy as a teacher than it is for other people. There is a thread about this somewhere in the forum ("Teachers with Asperger's" or something similar) where I have listed what difficulties these are. As I've experienced, the social demands of being a teacher are at the limit of what an aspie can do at all. Although that depends on the characteristics. In the end you end up with part-time and / or one-to-one tuition or you have larger gaps between jobs so as not to break. As a teacher, I can't manage enough hours because of the excessive social demands and am therefore poor. The combination of Asperger's and teacher leads to poverty in my case and therefore the job is the wrong job and unsuitable for me as an aspie because otherwise I might not be poor ..
Gulfoss wrote:He asked me for a personal interview in which he made it clear to me that I was a teacher for my desired profession) Ziatat: "unsuitable".Bizarre statement. I'm speechless. He'll mistake you for a kannerautist, whether on purpose or not.
Gulfoss wrote:This was followed by a tirade of hatred in which he said things like "Mr X, someone like you needs care 24 hours a day"He probably thinks that if you have a disability then you should have said that. "Fraud" is a powerful word. Not nice.
Gulfoss wrote:That you hid your autism up to now is like trying to cheat "Does not sound good. Is he confusing autism with sociopath? Sociopaths lie a lot. You can tell him that autistic people have a reputation for being overly honest, not lying.
Gulfoss wrote:"Since you are autistic, I will fundamentally question your statements"No. I do not know. Maybe he has the wrong idea of Asperger's Syndrome. I wouldn't hire Rainman or a non-speaking Kannerautist as a teacher. Not even a sociopath. An aspie would be OK if the aspie can do it.
Gulfoss wrote:But do you know this hatred of autistics and aspies described above? That someone is not hated because they are who they are, but only because they are autistic / aspie?
- What fundamentally bothers me is the absurd term "neuro-racism". That is bogus nonsense and in this context completely superfluous - you don't need this term to locate the "gentleman" who said so to you in the brown corner. Rather, you go (unintentionally of course - it is completely far from me to assume anything else!) Exactly on the level of argumentation of the Nazis: You divide disabilities (impairments or whatever you would like to have called ASS) according to "quality", because "neuroracism" obviously only refers to ASA - do you seriously believe that someone would react differently to a wheelchair user?
Did you act against this figure in any way? AStA, dean's office, criminal complaint? If the AStA is not completely dead, such discrimination is a hit. First of all, there is no need for any testimony that can be used in court, they come by themselves, because someone like that has certainly made similar statements earlier. Somebody like that has no business at a university or anywhere else in the civil service, and action should be taken against that.
Uninhabited island wrote:Maybe he has the wrong idea of Asperger's Syndrome. I wouldn't hire Rainman or a non-speaking Kannerautist as a teacher. Not even a sociopath. An aspie would be OK if the aspie can do it.I agree.
Experience has shown that even doctors reacted in a strange or irritated manner in the past, because when people hear the word "autism" they have a severe disability / limitation in mind. Autism was listed under "Other Psychoses" in the ICD-9. And some may actually have seen "Rain Man" or "Snow Cake". Some may have read media articles that sometimes describe a very difficult world. Some autistic people have caregivers. I found the reaction as the user described it, however, a bit exaggerated. On the other hand, I can understand when people think of the difficult and problematic things when they hear the word "autism" or "Asperger's syndrome". Because, on the other hand, autism is supposed to be so serious, as autistic people emphasize again and again. And professionally you saw projects in the media from time to time, but then a lot had to be taken into account. This was certainly very complicated and difficult to read for outsiders, so that I would not be surprised if most people see a "red rag" and give it a wave of approval when it comes to autism.In letters of gold on a snow white kite I will write "I love you"
And send it soaring high above you for all to read
- So first of all, neuroracism is really a bit of a strange term, as racism by definition is discrimination based on race, or since the term "race" has gone out of fashion in German-speaking countries because of ethnicity or skin color. Disability or illness discrimination is called ableism.
But in any case, this guy really seems to be completely wrong. I don't think he mistook you for Rain Man either, because that's just not possible, because it's impossible to believe that someone who was forever thought to be perfectly "normal" could not speak normally and at the slightest touch freaks out. So I would report it, because someone like that is definitely not wearable. Fortunately, I've never experienced anything like this before, but let's see what else comes my way. By the way, I'm also studying to become a teacher.
- I once read here in the forum about a doctor who was no longer allowed to do night duty since she asked to be exempted from shopping for snacks because of Asperger's. I found that hard too. You have to be careful if you don't want to be disadvantaged as an employee.
- The benevolent assessment "just doesn't really know about AS" is eliminated - he must know that @Gulfoss can lead a relatively "normal" life and that he himself had not been noticed negatively in the lectures so far, otherwise it would have been he wasn't surprised to find out about AS. Would it have been the first encounter - for free, stupid and in the form of a bit off, but to a certain extent explainable. But as? A lecturer in teacher training, in times of inclusion? Unacceptable.
Gulfoss wrote:A university lecturer with whom I have already completed several seminars, who knows my personal circumstances (married, two children, part-time student, full-time employee in the education sector) and with whom I have always worked well
- I do think that people react differently to physical disabilities in the teaching profession. External concerns may then be raised, such as the fact that not all schools are wheelchair accessible by a long way (but unfortunately that also applies to other jobs in other professions), but the suitability per se is not questioned. But he would probably have reacted in a similar way to someone like Pablo Pineda, who started teaching with Down syndrome.
HCS wrote:You divide disabilities (impairments or whatever you would like to call ASS) according to "quality", because "neuroracism" obviously only refers to ASS - do you seriously believe that someone would react differently to a wheelchair user?
Experience report as a child of a physically handicapped teacher: It may be that my mother had a particularly nice team, but apart from a guilty conscience on her part, she had to "let her colleagues down" when she had to call in sick again due to a disability, to my knowledge never trouble. When she was dependent on a wheelchair (before she walked on a stick / crutches for a long time), she had to take early retirement, but that was mainly due to the fact that the school was not wheelchair accessible and was hardly accessible in the mid / late 80s There were other wheelchair-accessible schools to which they could reasonably have been transferred. In addition, her rehab phase dragged on for a long time, so that she should therefore be "controlled". In any case, no one suddenly denied her the ability to be a teacher just because she was in a wheelchair.I think the problem with this is that "the people" (and I can't quite exclude myself from that) often first sort them into simple drawers before they even start thinking. For example, it is not considered that the degree of disability, whether autism, Down's syndrome, muscular dystrophy or whatever, is not always exactly the same. What you have seen in some documentary (or, if you like, read in the specialist literature) is transferred 1: 1 to the individual standing in front of you, without even asking whether it looks exactly the same or different with that person. Due to the broad spectrum of autism, the difference between the expectation "how is someone with an ASD" and the individual can be particularly large. One can probably avoid part of the problem if one does not speak of "autism" in general, but specifically of "Asperger's Syndrome" (even if there is of course still a lot of prejudice, unless it is a completely new term for the person) .
Hyperacusis wrote:On the other hand, I can understand when people think of the difficult and problematic things when they hear the word "autism" or "Asperger's syndrome". Because, on the other hand, autism is supposed to be so serious, as autistic people emphasize again and again. And professionally you saw projects in the media from time to time, but then a lot had to be taken into account. This was certainly very complicated and difficult to read for outsiders, so that I would not be surprised if most people see a "red rag" and give it a wave of approval when it comes to autism.
I suspect something like this has happened to the TE here: The accumulated knowledge about severe cases of autism was "imposed" on him. I find it shocking that not even the previous knowledge of the individual (married, two children, part-time student, full-time worker in the education sector), which cannot be reconciled with it, has prompted the Lord to inquire. I just don't understand the university lecturer's reaction. Is it really hate? Or aggressively expressed confusion because his image of autism does not match his image of TE?
Apart from the AStA, the disability officer at the university might be a suitable contact person to get help and, for example, to explain a little to the gentleman from a neutral point about what this Asperger's syndrome is all about. At my old university there is a "counseling for students with disabilities and chronic diseases" - maybe you have something like that too, @Gulfoss?All people are foreigners - almost everywhere.
All racists are assholes - everywhere.
- Yes, but the incident reported is - at least with the personal information he already had - certainly far beyond what one can usually expect from an academic who is now training future teachers (!) In relation to an aspie. Such a person has massive prejudices that cannot be dispelled even by information that is quite clear to the contrary. The statement "they need 24 hours a day care" is not to be interpreted differently - it must be obvious that @Gulfoss does not need this round-the-clock care. It seems highly doubtful to me that he would then have no prejudice against a wheelchair user.
Turtle wrote:I do think that people react differently to physical disabilities in the teaching profession.
- But if it had been the case that he didn't believe that Gulfoss had AS because he only knows severe cases, then the statement that he needed 24 hour care could also have been a provocation to express that he didn't Can be autistic.
Of course, you don't know what else was being said around it, maybe the conversation has developed and rocked.
A clarifying discussion together with the AStA or the disability officer would probably be really useful.Everything will be galactically fine.
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