What classifies an intersection

#12015-07-25 09:09:49

#22015-07-25 09:35:14

Jojo4u
Member
Registered: 2014-08-03
Posts: 1,090

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

I took with me that freedom of crossing and one of the other two should be fulfilled

#32015-07-25 13:32:14

Jojo4u
Member
Registered: 2014-08-03
Posts: 1,090

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

So the key question is what the criteria are:
1. Similar to the Autobahn, according to VwV-StVO ("To sign 330.1 Autobahn") these are:
* "suitable for express transport"
* "free of crossings at the same height"
* "separate lanes for one-way traffic"
-> in addition "Two lanes are only available if the lanes for both directions of travel are separated by median strips, dividing islands, demarcated tracks, crash barriers or other structural facilities."
* "with special connection points for the entrances and exits"
2. Only free of height
3. Only free of height + several lanes or structurally separated

As a litmus test you can use the B 464 between Böblingen and Renningen, which is free of height and separated by approx. 1m of asphalt in the area of ​​connection points. But only one lane in each direction and outside of junction points with a "dashed" guideline. Currently classified as a trunk. Strangely enough, there are "exit" signs, which are only allowed on motorway-like roads with separate lanes -Can anyone explain to me?

Last edited by Jojo4u (2015-07-25 13:33:38)

#42015-07-25 13:48:48

Jojo4u
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Registered: 2014-08-03
Posts: 1,090

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

There is also a suggestion in the wiki to be considered. Here it is suggested to introduce structural separation as a must.

My opinion: what the majority sees. On the one hand, the German soul only wants autobahn-like roads with structural separation, on the other hand, with "only free of heights" we are getting closer to international customs.

Last edited by Jojo4u (2015-07-25 13:49:15)

#52015-07-25 14:34:37

shallower
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Registered: 2011-05-21
Posts: 3,103

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

"Motorway-like" means for me
1) free of height
2) suitable for high-speed traffic
For the latter, mmn at least 2 + 1 alternating lanes that are legally separate (not necessary structurally), i.e. no use of the oncoming lane, overtaking only with the passing lane
According to the Wiki (current status) and the signage regulations, this is not a mandatory requirement.

The B464 meets both criteria between the Böblingen (traffic lights) and Sindelfingen (Calwer Str.) Exits, but only the first one further to the northwest.
If the exit signs have been set up correctly, it is still (administratively) a motorway-like road.
According to the current status, this can be tagged as trunk.

Since with primary etc. the traffic meaning also has priority over the official classification, a "primary" is also justifiable here.
A specification in the wiki would be appropriate, but mandatory structural separation would go too far for me.

The whole thing only applies to D anyway, elsewhere there are sometimes wider natural slopes under it.

#62015-07-25 15:05:35

Jojo4u
Member
Registered: 2014-08-03
Posts: 1,090

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

"Overtaking prohibited in oncoming traffic" -> this demand came here and here and I would accept it in the trunk article.

More opinions whether you need at least 2 + 1 or whether 1 + 1 is enough?

#72015-07-25 15:55:49

#82015-07-25 19:54:20

seawolff
Member
From: Kiel
Registered: 2008-08-29
Posts: 430

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

In New Zealand, neither freedom of height nor freedom of cultivation or structural separation are required.
Even single-lane bridges with traffic light control are recorded as "trunk" ;-)

#92015-07-27 08:36:40

Target
Member
Registered: 2015-04-07
Posts: 99

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

There is no international standard for trunk anyway. In Germany, I see freedom of height as a criterion for me.

#102015-07-28 08:17:22

Jojo4u
Member
Registered: 2014-08-03
Posts: 1,090

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

Looks like a survey on the platform is announced here: http://osm.haraldhartmann.de/umfrage/poll/39
Please comment on the draft.

#112015-09-11 12:32:20

Jojo4u
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Registered: 2014-08-03
Posts: 1,090

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

No comments yet, last call

#122015-09-12 09:13:50

Osmonav
Member
Registered: 2013-05-19
Posts: 33

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

The separation should be formulated in such a way that overtaking is possible at least as 2 + 1 at intervals. Otherwise a winding road with a continuously drawn center line would already be a drink (overtaking in oncoming traffic is not possible).

#132015-09-12 09:50:03

chris66
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2009-05-24
Posts: 9,832

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

Hi,
I would also write that there is no height = no crossing.


Mapper from the Münsterland.

#142015-09-12 10:15:22

shallower
Member
Registered: 2011-05-21
Posts: 3,103

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

chris66 wrote:

I would also write that there is no height = no crossing.

"free of height" was used here as an abbreviation for "free of crossings at the same height".
The creators of the administrative regulation may know whether there can be crossings at unequal heights.
Then no crossing would not be the appropriate term.
So that there are no ambiguities, I would take the "free of level crossings".

#152015-09-12 12:53:58

Jojo4u
Member
Registered: 2014-08-03
Posts: 1,090

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

The Wikipedia link is provided for the explanation of height freedom. I also added the 2 + 1 system. Would it make sense to include "No (structural separation)" as well?

EDIT: I recorded it because it will surely come up.

Last edited by Jojo4u (2015-09-12 12:59:52)

#162015-09-20 17:51:15

HalverHahn
Member
Registered: 2015-08-13
Posts: 152

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

A few points for discussion from my side:

In terms of traffic, a trunk should be located between the primary and the motorway, regardless of motorroad = yes. Everyone agrees on that.
In terms of travel time, a trunk should be cheaper than a primary. Especially without traffic lights (in contrast, motorroad can contain traffic lights). Without "direct" intersections, where the vehicles have to brake to turn and influence the flow of traffic, as well as when accelerating from a standstill on a side street.

Why do you (i.e. those of you who hold the following opinion) think that there should be an opportunity to overtake? Depending on the 2 + 2, 2 + 1 or even 1 + 1 with a dashed center line. In my opinion, there is no need to change the third lane to overtake when there is comparatively little traffic. But what about slower tractors / bicycles that are allowed to drive there? I find it very useful to mark a drink to mark the preferred alternative route (within the criterion of freedom from crossings), with long stretches of fluid traffic, regardless of overtaking lanes. As an example I mention the B412 from the A61 in the direction of the Nürburgring, which has only one lane to the west and an additional multi-purpose lane to the east, which is legally prescribed for slow vehicles.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/50.4117/7.1650

I do not see the separation of the directional lanes as a reason for a drink, instead you draw a separate way.

#172015-09-20 19:21:09

woodpeck
Member
Registered: 2009-12-02
Posts: 1,077

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

In Great Britain, the mappers use highway = trunk not for what is officially classified as "trunk", but for everything that is part of the primary route network. You can recognize this on site by the green "A" roads (which, however, I repeat, does not necessarily mean "trunk road").

A-roads marked with green signs rarely have traffic lights or crossroads at the same level (i.e. turning by oncoming traffic), but they can. (This statement would also be correct for official trunk roads, but it does not matter.) For example, the A835 in Scotland is such a highway = trunk, and there are definitely intersections at the same level (and that is certainly not a motorroad):

https://goo.gl/maps/nkmbqmLnAE82

So if you set up rules here that say that trunk should not have traffic lights or no crossings at the same height or anything else, then please be aware (and always write this) that you are only talking about the situation in Germany. I don't want a helpful ghost to translate the German wiki page into English at some point and then cheerfully downgrade all of their trunk roads

Bye
Frederik

#182015-09-20 20:21:42

shallower
Member
Registered: 2011-05-21
Posts: 3,103

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

woodpeck wrote:

So if you set up rules here that say that trunk should not have traffic lights or no crossings at the same height or anything else, then please be aware (and always write that) that you are only talking about the situation in Germany. I don't want a helpful ghost to translate the German wiki page into English at some point and then cheerfully wink at the British downgrading all their trunk roads

In my opinion, there is international consensus that the classification varies greatly from country to country.
Hence sites like http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/High… quivalence
You can refer to them on the German wiki page (and if necessary adjust the German part there).

#192015-09-21 01:55:47

TEL0000
Moderator
From: Berlin
Registered: 2008-06-11
Posts: 968

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

For me, Trunk in Germany is a so-called Autobahn-like road.
Wikipedia offers a very detailed definition for Germany. The 2 + 1 system is also listed there.

#202015-09-21 11:19:07

shallower
Member
Registered: 2011-05-21
Posts: 3,103

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

TEL0000 wrote:

For me, Trunk in Germany is a so-called Autobahn-like road.
Wikipedia offers a very detailed definition for Germany. The 2 + 1 system is also listed there.

However, the definition of official classification (visible on the yellow / white signs) means that there is not even a guarantee of free elevation (albeit very rarely). Otherwise, OSM is not entered according to formal classification, but according to actual significance.

#212015-09-21 13:33:14

TEL0000
Moderator
From: Berlin
Registered: 2008-06-11
Posts: 968

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

Wikipedia says: "Such a road must be of high traffic importance and ensure a journey without stopping in regular operation."
In other words: it must be free of height, otherwise a journey without stopping would not be guaranteed.

#222015-09-21 16:03:03

shallower
Member
Registered: 2011-05-21
Posts: 3,103

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

TEL0000 wrote:

Wikipedia says: "Such a road must be of high traffic importance and ensure a journey without stopping in regular operation."
In other words: it must be free of height, otherwise a journey without stopping would not be guaranteed.

In principle yes, but there are (as almost always) exceptions, especially for routes shortly before the final expansion. But that's not worth a fight about nicknames.
It would be rather annoying for me that there are not all that rare roads with an equivalent upgrade, but without a "yellow autobahn" classification. I would also want to include them in trunk (in Germany).

#232015-09-21 16:50:09

TEL0000
Moderator
From: Berlin
Registered: 2008-06-11
Posts: 968

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

shallow wrote:

It would be rather annoying for me that there are not all that rare roads with an equivalent upgrade but without a "yellow motorway" classification. I would also want to include them in trunk (in Germany).

As I understand the definition, roads that are built like a motorway also automatically count as such, regardless of whether they are signposted.
The definition is actually rather vague, and the official definition of WARC cannot be seen. Nevertheless, I think it makes sense to at least roughly orientate yourself towards it.
I would be more concerned that all of a sudden it would start to classify every street section with no elevation as a drink.

#242015-09-21 17:25:40

shallower
Member
Registered: 2011-05-21
Posts: 3,103

Re: what is a highway = trunk?

TEL0000 wrote:

I would be more concerned that all of a sudden it would start to classify every street section with no elevation as a drink.

That wouldn't bother me, there is no minimum length for motorways either (e.g. A831).
Since you need at least two height-free connections, you automatically get at least a few kilometers together.